What prompted you to go to law school? Did your legal career follow the path you had expected? 

Honestly, I went to law school because I really didn’t know what else to do. I attended Madison and majored in History with a minor in Biochemistry. I knew I wanted to continue my education, but I did not know if I wanted to go to graduate school or law school. I did well in an undergraduate criminal law course that I took, I liked the subject, and I thought—why not? So, I took the LSATs and went to law school. I did not think I wanted to be a lawyer, I hated public speaking, and I thought I would end up working in business. I ended up being a litigation attorney and teaching legal writing. I love the law and am so happy to have “fallen” into this field.

If your students could leave your course with only one takeaway, what would you want that lesson to be? 

Many law students are high achievers who work very hard, and unfortunately, are often very stressed.  I want students in my class to learn how to write a thoughtful, logical, well written brief/memo and also be secure in the knowledge that even if the grade is not what they expected or wanted, they did their best and that is enough.  We all learn at different speeds and striving to be better every day is the goal.     

Not to generalize, but do you think lawyers are good writers? 

Surprisingly, I do. I know it is fashionable to say that lawyers are not good writers, but I think most really are. Lawyers have the difficult task of making complex legal topics sound logical, concise, and clear. In addition, we want to be interesting and engaging. Sometimes, because of the difficulty of the task, our work does not come out as well as we would like. However, most of the time the briefs, letters, and memos that lawyers write are so clear and concise, we don’t even think about the writing. That, to me, is the sign of a good writer.

Share one thing about yourself that students typically never learn, even after a full semester with you. 

Most students don’t know that I love to flip houses. My husband and I buy, remodel, and sell houses on the side, and we’ve been doing this for about 10-15 years.

Tell us about the greatest accomplishment in your legal career before you joined the faculty here.

I helped a teenager from El Salvador win asylum to stay in the United States. Josefina (not her real name) crossed the border into Arizona at age 15 after a harrowing journey to flee gang violence. But the risk she’d be killed wasn’t enough to win asylum; that threat had to be connected to one of the federally recognized grounds for asylum. My colleagues and I discovered that nexus after several weeks of interviews, when Josefina quietly outed herself as a lesbian—and revealed that gang members as well as others had denigrated her sexual orientation when targeting her. That was enough to prevail at an asylum hearing four years later. In the meantime, Josefina excelled in high school, enrolled in college, and made a lasting impression on everyone who met her. Winning that case, and ensuring that Josefina could stay here and continue making contributions to her community, was such a relief!

If your students could leave your course with only one takeaway, what would you want that lesson to be?

“Find the underlying simplicity.” That’s a piece of advice that Judge Peterson, chief judge of the Western District of Wisconsin, offered to 1Ls at law school orientation my first year here. This advice applies to so many dimensions of legal writing, from your theory of the case down to the construction of a sentence. The law is complex enough on its own, and dense writing only makes it worse. Our job instead is to distill the law down to its essence without losing any meaning. That’s hard to do. 

It’s like what ballet dancers accomplish in taking physically grueling, gravity-defying movement and making it look effortless. Our job is to make legal writing look effortless—even though it took tremendous work to get there.

Has teaching here changed the way you look at legal writing?

It certainly has. Legal writing had always been intuitive for me, and as a result, I lacked some of the basic vocabulary to describe what we do. Even though my intuition as a practicing attorney was largely on-target, I now have a much better understanding of why we do things a certain way and how to talk about legal writing. There’s a downside to this as well (unfortunately): although I’ve always been a careful writer, I fear I’ve become too careful. I need to allow myself to tap back into my intuition and avoid overthinking my writing.

It’s 7 a.m. on a Saturday. How are you spending your free time?

Well, with two young kids at home, I’d hesitate to call it “free time,” but at least it’s time off the professional clock. At 7 a.m. on a Saturday, my 18-month-old son has just gotten up while my husband and six-year-old daughter still sleep. So we head outside, where he’ll grab the broom or push his wagon or spray the garden hose. If we can escape our yard, I’ll take him for a walk; he’s still small enough that I can carry him in my arms for a while. If he’s sufficiently entertained by the outside world, I can listen to Weekend Edition on NPR as we wander. Either way, I spend a lot of time pointing out “Flowers!” and “Bunnies!” and the like.

What role did legal writing play in your legal career before you taught full-time?

I practiced commercial litigation at a law firm in Atlanta for almost 15 years before my family moved to Madison and I joined the LAAW faculty at UW Law. As a litigator, legal writing dominated nearly every aspect of my daily law practice. For example, I used legal writing skills each and every day when I drafted legal memoranda to colleagues, motions and briefs to be filed with courts, discovery requests and responses, oral arguments for hearings and trials, and correspondence to clients, colleagues, opposing counsel, or court personnel. I know from many years of experience that strong legal writing skills are an integral part of everyday law practice and are crucial to a successful legal career. 

What do you love about teaching legal writing at UW Law School?

The students, faculty and staff at UW Law School are bright, kind, enthusiastic, and inspirational. The Law School campus buzzes with energy, and every day I learn something new from my extraordinary colleagues in the LAAW Program. Our work environment is collaborative and fun, and we work together toward our common goal of providing students with a valuable, realistic, and practical learning experience. Most of all I love working with the incredible students at UW Law, who continually amaze me with their intellectual curiosity, originality, talent, and boundless energy.  

Why is legal writing your jam?

Having practiced law for many years, I have seen first-hand the tremendous impact that effective (and ineffective) legal writing can have on the course of a case and the outcome for a client. I understand the importance of good legal writing in law practice, which is why I believe that I truly can add value when I help aspiring lawyers learn these critical skills. 

If you couldn’t teach legal writing, what would be your alternative dream career?

A professional ballerina.

Why is legal writing your jam?

Legal writing is my jam because the process brings order to chaos. There is often an overwhelming amount of legal authority and commentary surrounding a complicated legal question. It is easy to get lost, confused, or flustered when it doesn’t seem to fit together. The writing process demands that you cut through the noise and find the structure needed to analyze the question and convey the state of the law to someone who needs an answer.

If you couldn’t teach legal writing, what would be your alternative dream career?

A member of the Parliament horn section circa 1975.

If your students could leave your course with only one takeaway, what would you want that lesson to be?

That they have the capability to answer any legal question that may come their way. It may take significant time, effort, and research, but once they learn the process, they have what they need to practice law. This can get lost as an attorney continues to specialize throughout their career. Of course, expertise certainly helps! However, lawyers should not be afraid to jump into new areas of law when needed.

It’s 8:00 a.m. on a Saturday morning. How are you spending your free time?

Probably watching the English Premier League with my daughter, if not already on the way to one of her soccer games.

What is your role in the LAAW Program?

I am currently the Administrative Director, a position I’ve held for over 15 years. This position is the one I have served in the longest. Since I started in the program as a teaching assistant in 1981, I’ve held a wide variety of positions. While I taught for several years, I’ve primarily been involved in administration, as I am now. I do a lot of behind-the-scenes scheduling, coordinating, and program and law school committee work.

I wrote the Citation Handbook and am responsible for updating it whenever there is a new edition of The Bluebook. I am the go-to person in the program for questions about citation.

How has the program changed over the years?

The LAAW Program has gone through dramatic changes over the past 40 years. When I started law school here, there was only a 3-credit spring semester course taught by teaching assistants.

In the 1990s, the teaching assistants were gradually replaced by adjuncts. The adjuncts came to the building once a week to teach and were supported by a few part-time, permanent teachers. During that period, the program consisted of a 1-credit fall course and a 2-credit spring course. In 2011, the law school increased both LAAW courses to 3 credits and began the transition to full-time, professional teachers.

The LAAW curriculum has improved dramatically because of the increase in credit hours and the experienced, dedicated, full-time teachers. It has been exciting to watch the program grow and change and to see improvement every year.

What is something that people generally don’t know about you?

It’s almost impossible for me to go to the Art Fair on the Square or any other art show without buying something. I have to skip a lot of events just to keep the house from being overwhelmed.  I love having original art on the walls and shelves. In addition to some wonderful pieces from professional artists, we have works by my husband’s father and brother, our daughter, a dear friend, and an elephant who lived and painted at the Alaska Zoo.

What role did legal writing play in your legal career before you taught full-time?

Without doubt, legal writing played the leading role in my 20 years as a practicing lawyer. I’ve written motions, briefs, and all manner of other litigation documents; drafted and negotiated complex contracts; and written numerous ordinances, resolutions, administrative regulations, and policies.

I also had the unique opportunity to write at least two comprehensive reports, first for the Wisconsin Supreme Court regarding the processing of child protection cases in Wisconsin, and second for the City of Madison Mayor and Common Council recommending comprehensive changes to Madison’s government structure to increase racial equity and social justice.

Beyond these more formal pieces of writing, over the years I’ve written numerous memoranda, letters, and e-mails to clients, colleagues, opposing counsels, and elected officials on a wide variety of legal and policy questions. I even once wrote a poem for the Madison Arts Commission to explain the First Amendment bounds of a city policy! Knowing how to write accurately and well for all audiences in all possible formats is, in my opinion, the most important skill a lawyer can develop.

Why is legal writing your jam?

I love stories. Legal writing tells stories – the story of your client, the story of the law, and ultimately the story of how your client mixes with the law. Having the opportunity to tell those stories on a daily basis in a variety of settings is a fun, exciting, and consequential privilege.

If your students could leave your course with only one takeaway, what would you want that lesson to be?

That legal writing isn’t necessarily just about knowing how to put words on paper. It starts with good and patient listening; requires a curious and flexible mind, critical eye, and creative imagination; is rooted in thorough research and analysis; and is constantly improved by maintaining a healthy dose of empathy and humility. With that foundation, putting the words on paper in a way that is accurate, precise, and easy for readers to access will, eventually, become the easy part.

It's 8:00 a.m. on a Saturday morning. How are you spending your free time?

Our house is full early risers! If my wife and I are not watching our three children in a basketball game, cross country race, or swim meet at 8:00 a.m., I’m probably either gardening or out on a trail run in the woods thinking about a bagel and third cup of coffee.